The Awkward Stage

Despite some attrition thanks to the holidays, Brade Frurry managed to put together two 10-man Naxxramas runs. Kel’Thuzad has now died a few times (the first kill coming on a non-scheduled raid during the holidays), Sartharion is laughably easy (and one group even managed to get him with a drake up) and Malygos adventures begin next weekend.

And now we think we’re ready to give up scheduling 10-man Naxxramas and Obsidian Sanctum raids and only do them with 25 players. Or are we? This decision was reached tonight after each group cleared Naxxramas this week, the first kill for many. It was further amplified by the fact that half the loot from the first four wings was disenchanted.

We’ve dabbled in heroic raids briefly almost out of boredom, clearing the Spider and Plague quarters without much trouble despite a handful of pugs (which are now no longer necessary). Sartharion was found to be just as easy and even died with 19 people in the raid (achievement, yay!). When we got to Patchwerk, though…yikes. And how do you kill Instructor Razuvious with one shadow priest?

So my question is: When is the time to make the switch into 25-mans full time? As soon as you have the numbers? When you’re sharding things from the 10-mans? When you’ve beaten Naxxramas once? I’d like to see some Emblems of Valor as much as anyone, but I think it’s a bit of a bigger leap than some think.

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6 Comments on “The Awkward Stage”

  1. It is never time to fully abandon 10-man runs. As a Hunter, there are at least two best-in-slot items from 10-man raids, and possibly three depending on your calculations and your needs. I’m certain that other classes are the same way.

    25-mans are awesome, but never sacrifice your 10-man runs for them, IMO.

  2. Siha Says:

    Moving into 25 mans: as soon as you have the numbers.

    Blizz has said that they intend 10s and 25s to be completely separate progression paths, ie they do not expect you to gear up in 10s before going to 25s. In fact, a number of Naxx fights are arguably easier on 25 than 10. 🙂

  3. Lussafirin Says:

    I agree with Rilgon. As a hunter, only downing Kel’Thuzad once (great heals as always Doofy), I still feel we should be doing 10 man runs. There are still a number of pieces that can be had for a lot of us, and I think if we had better balance of classes in each group, a lot less would be getting sharded. And yes, I can’t wait until we can trade in tokens, I need 12 more for the Ring of Invincibility

  4. Rosenfel Says:

    The way I view it in my head is that it comes down to two things:

    When are people ready to move on? and
    Which one is easier to do on the fly?

    I feel that once you have the numbers to begin doing Heroic versions successfully you should start. It’s to be considered in a raiding guild that if you are raiding 4 nights a week, that means 3 nights are completely free — many people don’t want to raid, others can find this time to be perfectly suitable to run guild-lead “pugs” of normal versions of raids.

    I think by scheduling 25-mans you’re only giving yourself more options. It’s much harder (as we have evidenced) to pug a heroic, much easier to grab 10 people (with all the alts we have) and get really far into a Naxxramas, maybe even clear it.

    You also have to look at a longevity approach; once you get Naxxramas to 1-2 day clears, Malygos and Sarth on the same day, that’s now 2-3 days you raid, not 4 – leaving a ton more days to schedule 10mans.

    I think people are seeing such decisions like moving on as “the end of 10mans.” I feel it’s a base assumption to think that because you are now doing 25-man content, 10mans are some taboo subject that are never to be touched.

    To say that they’re being “sacrificed” is quite a lofty leap, especially considering that they’ve never been martyr’d or sacrificed – instead, they’ve been given a different place in priority.

  5. Amendera Says:

    Instructor with 1 shadow priest isn’t too bad. We don’t have any so we use 2-3 holy priests. Hit food and hit elixirs help. YOu go for that third one to help with mc dropping and not having an understudy there to tank. With 3, it is alot less likely to happen.

    If priests are at a shortage you can bounce aggro back and forth between 3 people in a triangle with dps in the middle. This can be done with hunters and distracting shot or just use 3 tanks now that taunt has a 30 yard range. If you look on youtube, you can find a few videos showing that strat

  6. Nirgala-Destro Says:

    We have 10-man teams that run whenever’s convenient for the team (an ANZAC team that runs after 10pm Server/pst, a weekday team, a Sun afternoon team), and then we have 25-man times that fit for the the majority of the the guild (Fri/Sat evenings).

    This is the same method we used in BC, because this way there’s a normal team that gets to know each other for 10s, but will still rotate people out within the guild as people have RL things come up, or just opt to step out so someone else can gear up that night. We had one team that was in ZA right when it came out, and clearing it within a few weeks, and another team that was finishing up Kara when ZA came out. Teams were pretty much created as a handful of people hit max level, keeping people from really griping about slow levelers preventing raiding.

    The one negative side to this is that it does make a bit of cliqueishness, but a bit of rotation within teams as needed, and making sure the friendly atmosphere is maintained in 25s helps combat this.

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